Posts by OnionAdmin

Paul Spain:
Greetings. I’m your host, Paul Spain, futurist and chief executive at Gorilla Technology. I love seeing individuals and their organizations thrive. This is what the New Zealand Business Podcast is all about, through sharing the business leadership and innovation learnings of our most incredible people. This episode I’m joined by Rob Woolner, Managing Director of Autex Acoustics in New Zealand. Founded in 1967 as a textiles manufacturer, today their business is turning over in excess of $200 million and focused primarily on manufacturing acoustic products and the warriors rugby league team, which they now own. Rob joined Autex nearly 15 years ago and has played an instrumental role in establishing Autex’s strong presence in the uk, Australia and the United States. Autex products have won business in global brands such as Adobe, Amazon, Google and Disney and are now focused on driving innovation in both sustainable acoustics and high performance insulation.

Paul Spain:
Under Rob’s leadership and management, Autex New Zealand is refining that legacy with continued global growth and a strong domestic focus on energy efficiency, product circularity, quality manufacturing and staff wellbeing. Today, we delve into Rob’s journey from sales rep to managing director, looking at his personal growth and the evolution of Autex as a Kiwi company shaping healthier, more sustainable buildings. The New Zealand Business Podcast is brought to you by One New Zealand and my company, Gorilla Technology. If you’re stuck with how to get the very best out of it, or you’re worried about cybersecurity or data privacy risks, then let’s grab a coffee together, get in touch. Well, greetings and welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here. Rob Warner.

Rob Woolner:
Thanks, Paul. Pleasure to be here.

Paul Spain:
Now, always like to hear a bit of the backstory. So tell us a little bit about where you were born and where you grew up, Rob.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, I was born in England, actually, Southampton. My parents are both English and very English still today when they. Their mannerisms and the way they speak, etc. So yeah, I was born there and only six months old. Came to New Zealand with them. My father was an anaesthetist so he was practicing down here and then they relocated permanently at that point. So first to Christchurch for a couple of years and then relocated up to Auckland and brought up on East Auckland actually out how Quay. So went to school out there, Kleins College and now I’m married at Westie, so I’m based out west at Auckland now.

Paul Spain:
Okay. Oh, good stuff. So yeah, tell us about those, those, you know, childhood years. What were, what were the things that sort of interested you and do you look back and sort of see any, you know, connection with, you know, current life and business and so on.

Rob Woolner:
Interestingly, my grandfather was in the police. He was the British head of police in Tonga, actually, and before that he was in the Gurkhas, and he’s had quite an interesting career. So I was always quite fascinated by that. So in my mind, growing up, I always wanted to be in the police. So everything sort of revolved around getting to that point, which I managed to do, but didn’t stay there too long. So, yeah, my parents actually separated when I was about six or so. So, yeah, still saw my old man quite a bit, but lived brought up with my mum and my sister. So always, I think, sort of searched out that male mentor and luckily enough managed to have some good friends that I spent a lot of time with and sort of their fathers.

Rob Woolner:
And, yeah, I had quite an impact, I think, on me growing up, because I think, you know, you always sort of look to your father for that inspiration, everything, and he was able to give me that, you know, he was a hard worker and he was, as I say, an anaesthetist, and then worked for Merks, Sharp and Dome for a while and had a really successful career. So I always sort of looked up to that. And it’s funny, as you get older, you start to see the mannerisms and those sorts of things developing yourself and you say, man, I start to look like the way my dad runs and all that sort of stuff. Right. I don’t know, it’s. But no, it’s great. And that’s also been awesome as I’ve become a parent too. You know, I’ve got three boys, so, yeah, I think that was quite impactful.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that’s interesting. So tell us about that journey, you know, from. From school to being in the police. What did that look like?

Rob Woolner:
Well, I sort of couldn’t wait to get in the police. And back then it was sort of the thing to do. You’ve got to go to university, right? So my parents said, you need to go to university before you go under police. So I sort of thinking, well, what can I study? And I said, I quite like biology at school. It was a bit of fun, you know, learning about the earth and all those sorts of things and birds and everything. So I went and did a biology degree at Auckland and didn’t really think about career paths outside of that. You know, what do you actually do with a biology degree? But every now and then there’s uses for it, I think, and if anything, it’s just another opportunity to apply yourself and learn how to study and learn how to work and retain information and all of those things. So certainly don’t regret doing that.

Rob Woolner:
But I just, I actually finished my degree the last few exams while I was down at police college, so literally couldn’t wait to get down there.

Paul Spain:
So when you look back at those disciplines and things that sort of came out from that time at university, how important do you think those have actually been in your career journey?

Rob Woolner:
I think sort of learning how to study has always been good. How to sort of seek out new information and retain it and apply it, I think is great. But interestingly, I went back and did my MBA later on in my career and I found that just so much more impactful working and learning and then applying it straight back into the work that you’re doing. And I sort of went on a journey there with that and found that I guess, much a much better way of learning. But look, for me, I was luckily enough, always fairly disciplined, so, you know, I just didn’t want to waste time. So at university I sort of said, I’m not going to fail a paper, you know, I just couldn’t stand having to do something again. So even though I really struggled with statistics and maths and all those things really weren’t my subject and still aren’t. Just worked really hard at making sure I didn’t have to do it twice.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, good job, good job. So, yeah, you know, when you think about that, that desire to be in the police, you know, you talked around your grandfather’s experience there, but, you know, was there much sort of depth to that in terms of what you, you know, what you thought that that might, might look like for you in terms of as a career?

Rob Woolner:
Not too sure, really, I think. No, I just always sort of thought that was where I wanted to go and what I wanted to do. I think I’ve always sort of cared about people and sort of wanted to make a bit of a difference, I think. And it’s funny because someone as I was going into the police sort of said, oh, if you think you’re going to make a difference in the police, you’re not, you know, which was a really weird statement to make. Right.

Paul Spain:
But it’s harsh.

Rob Woolner:
But honestly, once you on that track, once you’ve been in there, I get what I get where they were coming from. You know, like in some aspects of it, the problems are so large that on your own, you know, you don’t necessarily see the result. Right.

Paul Spain:
But everybody makes you Know, can make a difference.

Rob Woolner:
Sure.

Paul Spain:
Like, yeah, well, sure.

Rob Woolner:
He says, yeah, I didn’t quite know how to conviction there, how to take that statement. Right. But the police were some of the, you know, I grew up incredibly quickly. I was young, So I was 20, 22, 23.

Paul Spain:
Yeah.

Rob Woolner:
Went into the police at a time when they were quite short staffed, so I found that quite challenging and that you’re thrown in, literally thrown in fairly new, fairly young, into situations that you just have honestly no idea how to deal with and, and for one it’s great. Cause you have to figure it out. So I think that was awesome, being able to problem solve quickly and work through quite challenging situations. But some of the people I met and worked with were absolutely fantastic and I’m still friends with a bunch of them now. I think too. Just that maturity and realising the world luckily had a fairly privileged life. You grow up around good people and good friends and you sort of think the world’s this wonderful place and then you gotta realise actually there’s some balance to that. And I think having to deal with that and look, to be honest, that’s one of the reasons I didn’t stay in there.

Rob Woolner:
I think I probably wasn’t suited to it, you know, I sort of went deep and really wanted to make a difference and all of those things. And after a while you just. I don’t know, I sort of struggled with it, I think, and I definitely don’t regret it. And it was some of the best learnings of my career and I’ve always been able to apply them and to be honest, know the roles I’ve gone for afterwards. The fact that I was in the police has been a really important factor for getting an opportunity, you know, So I think everything happens for a reason and it was great but I sort of didn’t know what to do with myself when I thought, man, maybe this isn’t for me because I’d spent my whole life thinking I’m going to be in the police forever. And then I just went, man, what do I do now?

Paul Spain:
Wow.

Rob Woolner:
Which was a huge moment. But.

Paul Spain:
And that problem solving that, you know, that you talked about, how much of that you had to. Did you have to do, you know, entirely on your own. You were out on the beat, were you?

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, I was. You spent your first two years sort of working through different parts of policing, but all sort of frontline response constable and I was policing in Otara Pitoi Odahu. So yeah, fairly full on environments and again, we might have had, you know, two or Three staff on a night shift. And when you find yourself in situations with 15, 20 people, you know, out of control in South Auckland somewhere, two or three people can’t really make too much of a difference. So a few times you gotta walk away, you know, you gotta realise, man, we gotta get out of the situation and come back. And again, for me, sometimes that didn’t sit that well with me, you know, so. But there were some great, as I say, great learnings and some really good times within that. Police college was fantastic.

Rob Woolner:
Really enjoyed the challenge of that. And again, having like you say, having studied and stuff before helped with that process. You know, we’re alongside other people that hadn’t done any of that and found police college and everything really difficult.

Paul Spain:
If you kind of, you know, look back on that time, what sits with you as maybe the most difficult experience that you had to, you know, that you encountered and you had to deal.

Rob Woolner:
With, I think, I guess when you just didn’t have the experience so you sort of felt a little bit out of your depth, you know, I think, you know, and a lot of these situations you’re walking into are quite big moments in people’s lives too. But for me, the first suicide that I went to was huge. You know, I’d never really seen a dead body etc before. And you’re walking into environment again, great family and, you know, whatever circumstances led to that, it was just so tragic. And then having to try and follow up and take statements and deal with the family after that for me was massive, you know, like. Yeah, and again, just without that experience of how to deal with it. And I think that’s the importance of having really good leadership. And again, when you’re in an environment like that where you’re quite short staffed, obviously you’re short of some key leaders and stuff too.

Rob Woolner:
So I think my time there too was just. I didn’t quite have some of those sort of good leaders to show the way. So I’m sure if I went back through again, I’d have a completely different experience and like I said, still friends with a bunch of. A bunch of guys still in and making a real difference. So it was purely my experience of where I was at, at that stage of life and everything Also tough cause all my friends are out partying and I’m working shift work and you know, like it was a real life change going into the police that young and maybe I wasn’t quite ready for that. I’m not too sure. Still trying to still play competitive sport and have a lifestyle outside of police. Whereas I think back then anyway, a lot of police that did well, you know, all their friends were police, they’d marry a policeman.

Rob Woolner:
Like police was everything for me. It was important, but I still tried to have a life outside of it.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in terms of the, I guess the best takeaways.

Rob Woolner:
I think just you can deal with anything almost after that, you know, in terms of managing crisis moments and realising you’re only as you can only play what’s in front of you and I think also realising that sometimes you don’t have the answers and you need to walk away and you need to come back and reassess. So yeah, as I say, hugely important part of my life and I learn a huge amount and I still have fond memories looking back and I almost, just before I joined ortecs actually I was considering going back into the police. You know, literally, almost push, go on that. So it certainly wasn’t, I hope I haven’t portrayed it too negatively. It wasn’t, but it was just a, it was a big moment in my life being that young and just the state of play at the time.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, certainly what you described there, it’s probably, you know, really hard for most of us to understand the realities and especially I guess as a younger person with that effectively being your first, you know, full time work. Yeah. You’ve got a lot to take on there. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that. Now, moving on from, you know, from police, when you made that call that you wanted to do something different, how did you decide, you know, where to from here when your whole life’s sort of been pointed in a particular direction?

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, it was tough, to be honest. The police, I think is great in that they offer two years leave without pay. So I think for that reason they’d rather people sort of went and did something else than leave the police completely. So I took two years leave without pay and then just apply. I saw a job in the paper for Villa Maria as an export coordinator and my old man had always been into wine and so I always had a bit of an interest there and I thought, man, that looks interesting. So literally applied for that role and luckily enough got that role and so it just sort of unfolded from there. So I didn’t have too long really between exiting police and being into something new.

Paul Spain:
How did you convince them to hire you for this role when you didn’t have, you know, you didn’t have any work experience other than your police sort of experience behind you that you were the right person to delve to take that on.

Rob Woolner:
Good question. And there’s probably two people in my career that I feel I owe a lot to and one of those is George Fusternich from Villamaria. And yeah, I was applying for a really junior role and yet he interviewed me at 7am in the morning out at. Out at the Mangeri site there. And, you know, I think I was just relatively honest about where it come from, what I’d done. And I think the police looks good on the cv. You know, you’ve probably experienced a few things and can maybe deal with situations. I’m not too sure, to be honest.

Rob Woolner:
I was fairly oblivious to it, I think, but I know I was up against a couple other candidates that had a bit of experience and I honestly thought I wasn’t going to get the role, but he gave me that opportunity and. And I actually did some travel after a year or so and George said, you know, when you’re ready to come back, give me a call and we’ll find something for you. Which he did, which was great. So, yeah, George Fisnich from Villamaria and Mark Robinson from Autex, again applying for roles I probably didn’t have the experience for. And he’s given me opportunity within Autex that I certainly didn’t have the experience for, but grateful for that opportunity.

Paul Spain:
What did you end up doing during that. That time at Villa Maria? Because you did a couple of. Couple of roles, didn’t you?

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, I jumped into their export team and at that time they were exporting a huge amount of Sauvignon Blanc up to the uk. It was that time when they’d overproduced and there’s just copious amounts of Sauvignon Blanc in the country that needed to find a home. So again, had a great, great manager there at the time and really got involved and we’re having a look at some export markets, even though I was more sort of taking orders and organizing shipments and that sort of thing, but gave me some eyes into the manufacturing side of that and also touching back on my biology degree, you know, a little bit around viticulture and did some papers with them. And I sort of really got to know a few of the winemakers quite well and worked at Vintage. They gave you the opportunity, if you wanted to, to go down and work at Vintage for a few days. So I sort of got engrossed in that wine culture and really enjoyed it and it was again, common ground I could have with my old man to, you know, taste some wine together. And yeah, and get him some good discounts and that sort of thing. But it’s something that I’ve really valued all the way through.

Rob Woolner:
And then as I say, I did some travel, went overseas with a police buddy of mine and we spent some time in the UK and I came back and did a. George offered me sort of a events management role as sort of helping in the cellar door there and helping with some weddings and other functions. And then a sales role popped up and again, no sales experience, but just sort of said, look, I’m keen, I’m super keen, give me an opportunity. And they did and started out in that fine wine side of things and then managed to take on some restaurant, some on premise stuff and some grocery, which was really interesting to get some eyes into that sector and then dealt with the find wine clients, which was great.

Paul Spain:
What do you think you learned about sales in that environment?

Rob Woolner:
I think really it’s more around just trying to make friends with people, really. You know, all you’re doing is trying to find some common ground with the people you’re calling on and everything else sort of flows from there, I think, you know, people like doing business with people they like, I think. So I loved it, you know, just driving around Auckland, calling on, you know, all sorts of places and got to really talk about the wine and everything I was learning, which was cool. And then, you know, you start to resonate with the brand and you start to look out for it wherever you go and, you know, you start to represent it and feel quite proud of some of the work you’re doing. So I absolutely loved it. It’s great.

Paul Spain:
But that, that came to an end.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, I had a really, really good manager there at the time, Italian guy, Emiliano. And he was, he had been in sales for ages and he sort of said to me, you got to get your degree in sales, which is three years, you know, and then you can, then you’re qualified. So I think I’ve done about three or four years with Villa Maria at that point and. And I wasn’t really looking, but I think I saw a job somewhere that had a cool car and it was a. I think it was a tool brand or something and you got to drive around in this flash car and do all these things. So I applied for that again, not thinking I’d get it and the recruiter said, look, that I’ve just filled that role. How about this one with Autex? And so I wasn’t sort of looking. I didn’t really know who Autex was, but they had quite a nice sales rep car, I think a Holden station wagon and an iPhone or something.

Rob Woolner:
And he sort of, he sort of talked me into it and said, oh, you know, these guys are great. And so I just went, hey, why not? You know, it was nothing other than that I was still relatively young. So I said, let’s give it a go and moved across to Autex.

Paul Spain:
So quite a journey that you’ve, you’ve had at Autex. What year was it that you joined Autex?

Rob Woolner:
It’s the same year I got married, actually. So I, I hope you can remember on the Spot, 2011, joined Autex.

Paul Spain:
Good stuff. So maybe now’s a good juncture, maybe get a bit of an overview of the Autex, you know, business. So quite a storied, you know, history over 50 something years. So maybe you can. Yeah, give us the version.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, Altex is a great family business, I think five families. I mean, the story changes a little bit depending on who tells it, I think, but this is my version anyway. I think five founders came out from the UK in the textiles industry, from up in northern England and we’re working here for a textiles manufacturer. And then they sort of started moonlighting a little bit. I think they started running some additional product on night shift and sort of selling it out the back door or out of the boot of the car. And then at some point decided, look and let’s roll out our own version of this. So originally they’re doing some pretty basic textiles, some jute underfelts, you know, where they’d rip up and repurpose old hessian sacks into some underfelts for carpets and that sort of thing. And then, you know, through their time they’ve sort of morphed and changed through a bunch of things.

Rob Woolner:
But then they, they were doing blankets for UNICEF at one point, I think they were in some financial difficulty actually. And there’s a story that David Robinson, one of the founders, flew over to the UK to sign this UNICEF blankets deal and that was sort of the make or break of the company. You know, if he didn’t manage to do it, everything was going to be, you know, it would have been a very different story. So they’ve sort of always done textiles and that’s where the name came from. Auckland Textiles became Autex and they got into polyprop carpets, which was needle punch carpets that went into a lot of schools early on. And a lot of boats, actually a lot of New Zealanders boats will have Autex. Carpet through it and garage carpet and those sorts of things.

Paul Spain:
And then are those more the sort of carpet tiles or what’s different about that sort of carpet than.

Rob Woolner:
No, I mean needle punch polyprop. It’s pretty, it’s pretty well wearing type carpet. You know it could go outdoors and it was. Versus some of the competition. It was. It would hold its colour really well in UV and yeah, it was just a really good New Zealand made robust product that sort of tended to go in all those places where you need a carpet to last. The carpet tile market actually was one of the reasons that product. We wound that product up probably six, seven years ago now, which was quite a big decision at the time.

Rob Woolner:
When I joined the business, Carpets was the money maker, you know, that was the product.

Paul Spain:
Wow.

Rob Woolner:
And then you know, within four or five years we didn’t make carpet anymore and we were making all sorts of other things. So they got into PET type products after that through the insulation side of things. So the government was offering some subsidies in and around insulating homes which they’re still doing today.

Paul Spain:
But pet break that down.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah. So recycled plastic bottles essentially. So your plastic bottles that you. That you’re drinking today, you know when it gets recycled, turned into a bottle flake which then gets repurposed into a fiber which we then use heat and pressure really nothing more to, to bind it and turned it into some, some building materials. So it’s got some great qualities in that it’s fairly water resistant. You know, just like a plastic bottle. It can. Doesn’t really absorb much moisture.

Rob Woolner:
It lasts a long time. It holds its shape really well and the beauty of it, when it’s managed properly it can be recycled at the end of life. So.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Right, so it already starts out as a recycled product.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, starts out.

Paul Spain:
So we can feel good about when we throw our plastic bottles into the recycling that maybe they’re gonna, they’re gonna come back and be used by you guys.

Rob Woolner:
Well, that’s right. And I know there is some, some sort of negativ synthetics and plastics but there’s a lot of plastic in the world that needs to be recycled, you know, and if you’ve got. Which we’ve worked incredibly hard on in the last few years is closing the loop properly on the PET plastic side of our business. So that when you take a product and recycle it, you’re not continually degrading it down into nothing. You’re actually trying to repurpose it at the top of that supply chain again and through some pretty Nifty. Some pretty exciting technology and machinery that we’ve put in. We’ve been able to do that. And there’s some more opportunity on the horizon to even go one step further.

Rob Woolner:
So. So back to that journey. You know, polyester insulation became quite a big part of the business, and that sort of put us into Australia as well. They had a similar program over there that just went gangbusters. So some of the best years, up until the recent ones with Autex, were back in those days around those government insulation projects. And then we had architects that were trying to specify carpet on the walls just to control some acoustics, but the carpets just didn’t meet the fire code. They met the fire code for the floor, but not the walls. So we came up with a product, a pet, same fiber, but a product that could give you some acoustics on the wall that’s gone into classrooms, and there’s not many classrooms in New Zealand, I don’t think that doesn’t have vortex composition on the wall.

Paul Spain:
Fantastic. So explain that, what you mean by acoustics and how important that can be in differing environments where you end up selling product. Obviously, you know, we’ve got. We’re in an audio studio, so some good acoustic treatment, you know, helps with what we’re doing for recording. But I think the uses are, you know, pretty far and wide these days, aren’t they?

Rob Woolner:
Absolutely. And getting more and more required, I think, in buildings. So, I mean, anyone that’s been into a cafe or restaurant where they’re sitting, you know, within a meter of someone and can’t hear what they’re saying knows. Knows the importance of acoustics, I think. So, yeah. There’s a lot of studies in and around, especially around learning, just the quality of the learning experience when you can actually hear every word that’s being spoken. So that’s where our journey started in that acoustics, I think. So when you’ve got a lot of hard surfaces within a space and a lot of architecture now, a lot of hard surfaces are favored.

Rob Woolner:
There’s some beautiful stone products and very simplistic design where a lot of hard surfaces are in a space. So the downside of that is you tend to get a lot of sound bouncing around any hard surface, you get sound bouncing off it, which is that reverberation and that echo. So our products sit on walls and ceilings within those spaces and just absorbs that sound so it stops it bouncing back. And when we started our journey into acoustic products, all that really existed was fiberglass panels that I think architects were really trying to hide away. We have to put acoustics in. They don’t look fantastic, so let’s try and hide them up in the corners and those sorts of things. So that was really important. Part of our journey was to start to be led by design and create some acoustic products that actually now have become the feature in a lot of these spaces.

Rob Woolner:
And a lot of these spaces you walk into, you wouldn’t realize that these products are there for acoustics, the color range that we’ve got, and just the way that we can use these products in these spaces. It’s been amazing, actually, to see the development of product over that time. It’s been a great journey to be a part of.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, the role of the architects within, you know, within this picture for you where, you know, how important are they to you? Is it. And, you know, what does that relationship look like?

Rob Woolner:
They’ve been an incredibly important part of the Vortex’s success, I think. So we work with a lot of great designers, and when I say work with, you know, we’re working alongside, you know, so they are obviously, as they’re designing these spaces, they’ve got ideas and concepts and visions, and we need to work and fit in with that. So some of the product development that we’ve had, some of the products we’ve come out with, have come out of this relationship with architects saying, hey, this is what I’m thinking. And we’ve come up with ways to manipulate the product to make it look like what they want, you know, so we spend a lot of time with architects and. And I think they’re, you know, given the amount of products and that they need to know about, they’re probably not specialists in any of it. So they really rely on those product supply companies to be able to give that technical advice. So we work really hard on, you know, giving advice in and around where products should go, how much to be used, what sort of frequencies need to be absorbed, and. And that then dictates what types of products we’d put forward and suggest.

Rob Woolner:
And ultimately they tend to go with. Which is great. But we’d be nowhere without their vision and design skill. You know, some of our products do look amazing, but it’s off the back of these architects coming up with these wonderful ideas and visions and dreams.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, yeah. There’s a huge amount of creativity, you know, that certainly I’ve seen from the, you know, the New Zealand architects. I was visiting architect in Christchurch a while ago, friend who’ll be probably listening into this episode, actually visiting his premises and you know, they had this building that had been, I guess unable to be used after the earthquakes and Christchurch, that’s just quite near to the square. Of course the cathedral came down and you know, hadn’t been used for years and years. And then you know, they’ve obviously strengthened the building and so on and yeah, just going into their space and seeing all the design elements and you know, a good portion of that was, was acoustic type, you know, treatment. Boy, absolutely, you know, superb. What can be done with what would have been any old space of, you know, no, you know, no style or anything and then yeah, great architect can come in and really transform it.

Rob Woolner:
Absolutely.

Paul Spain:
Now the other sort of scenarios that you see acoustic treatments being used in, I mean, I know for myself within our business with looking after technology for organoids organizations, one of the areas over the last sort of decade or two has been this increase in video conferencing and what used to be just a boardroom for internal meetings really you end up with often a couple of TVs on the wall and a camera. You need to have good acoustics in the room for those that are sitting there sort of chatting with remote participants often. And even though there’s an element of AI that can improve a bit of echo for your outgoing audio, you often get better results. If you’ve got good audio treatment in boardrooms and meeting rooms. How much of a part of what you do as those sort of typical business scenarios and improving the acoustics in those environments?

Rob Woolner:
Look, I think we’ve certainly seen it off the back of that increase in video conferencing and team calls the way that we do business now. I think more recently we’ve seen companies trying to get people back into the office post Covid so really trying to create beautiful spaces that welcome people back in. So I think creating nice shared spaces and sort of that hot desking environment, you’re still putting a bunch of people together in a space but you still want that space to work. So there’s so much going on within businesses now. You need a lot of rooms to be cross functional and in multi use. So look, having good acoustics mean that typically people just are quieter within that space. It’s amazing when you, you know, when you can reduce the noise, people then speak quieter because it’s quieter, you know. So it’s sort of hard to give you a really concrete answer.

Rob Woolner:
But I think anyone that we’ve got it out at our showroom out in Auckland, we’ve got a space with no acoustics that when you Walk through the reception area, there’s no acoustics. And then you walk into the showroom that’s got acoustics. And that’s just such a great way to show people what a room is like before and what a room is like after. And, you know, you see companies spend a lot of money on the tech gear and cameras and all of those things, and then you get a bunch of people in the room that can’t quite hear what others are saying. And, you know, it really justifies the cost, I guess, of doing a room properly. And we treat a lot of rooms after the fact. You know, our product tends to go and relatively late in the piece and often projects are running out of money at that point, so it’s sometimes cut out of the budget. And then we often have to go back in a few months later and try and retrofit product back in.

Rob Woolner:
Because again, you’ve spent a lot of money on a space. It looks wonderful, but it’s got to perform. So that’s really where we deal is just in the performance of those spaces. And certainly around education. It’s just been so massive for us back to, I guess, by the research, just to show the quality of education really depends on how well kids can hear wherever they’re sitting within that classroom, the front or the back, you know, you tend to have the naughty kids at the back, and that’s often the hardest to hear what the teacher’s saying up the front. So we’ve done a lot of work in that space and we do a lot in universities and sports halls and even swimming pools, you know, spaces that you don’t quite think need acoustics. There’s a lot of hard surfaces within a swim school.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, you get a massive echo and. Yeah, I remember when my son was learning to swim and swimming school in a space, we went, you know. You really hear those echoes, don’t you?

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, absolutely.

Paul Spain:
And, you know, you talked about the role of sort of architects in terms of maybe, you know, pushing you to. In different directions to maybe, you know, solve problems for them. What, what sort of innovation, you know, have you. Have you seen, you know, come from. From that sort of encouragement and, you know, the problems that they might, you know, bring to bring to the table for you.

Rob Woolner:
I think architects, they sort of love their own design flair on something. You know, it feels like you can offer quite generic products, but sometimes they want a little bit of their own design flare across that. And that’s something that we’ve been able to offer. You know, probably 40% of what we do is custom. And that may just be a small customization or it might be something, you know, really new. And as I said, can lead to a new product innovation for us. But, you know, we started with composition, which is like a wallpaper. Essentially it’s a 10 mil thick wallpaper that goes on the wall.

Rob Woolner:
It’s like a pin board, it’s pinnable, there’s lots of colours, it’s very durable, protects the plasterboard and gives acoustics. And then we went into some panel products like desk partitions, those types of things. And then we went into panels on the wall and then we started going into ceilings. And then the innovation just really ramped up from there and we’ve hired some wonderful people. Our design director and and his design team are amazing in terms of what they think up and come up with. And then we sort of entered this race to innovate with competitors. You know, everyone’s racing to do what the others are doing and so it’s pushing you consistently to come up with something new. And we were the first to start printing on our panels.

Rob Woolner:
So that brought in a design flair for architects. You know, anything from a photograph and scenery through to logos, through to patterns and colour and all of those things which printing really opened the door for. And then we got into CNC cutting and started putting grooves into panels and did a lot of multi design in and around cutting grooves and patterns into this panel, which gives sort of a 3D structure to it. And then when you cut a panel with a V groove, you can then fold it. So it started. We started folding up panels into beams and actually acoustically, when you’ve got a hollow void inside that, it improves the acoustics, which is great. So we got in.

Paul Spain:
This is the wood beams that you’ve created?

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, so we call them rafts. So like a raft ceiling. So first of all, it was just colour panels. And then we started printing. So we started printing timber patterns across these beams, which then made it look almost hard to tell if it was timber or not. But it’s giving you quite a lightweight solution, whereas timber’s relatively heavy and also gives you acoustics. And then we’ve just launched a laser etching machine which puts texture onto the panel as well. So you’ve got a panel with a timber print that we can then put a timber etching pattern through, which again is getting harder and harder to tell it’s not timber.

Rob Woolner:
So that’s just some of the innovation. You know, we’ve gone from color. Color was a big driver to start with and then printing and then texture and then shape. So by heating and pressing our panels, you can get 3D structures and 3D tiles, and it’s just sort of endless in terms of new product development. And then more recently, starting to get into new fibers and natural fibres and new technology in that space and then that environmental sustainability journey and around truly trying to close these loops. And I feel we’ve really led the way in some of those spaces, which, again, competitors are fast following and catching up. But there’s a lot of firsts for Rawtex, I think, which is great. And that comes down to, as I said, our people that are just so creative and we’ll sort of give anything a go.

Rob Woolner:
And that coupled with architects continually trying to push boundaries and customise things, it’s sort of been a great combination and it’s been quite organic in terms of that growth and some of the buildings and projects we’ve been involved in around the world. Yeah, we sort of have to just have a bit of a laugh every now and then. You know, a New Zealand company out of Avondale putting product into the Empire State Building, you know, it’s just. And some schools in Egypt and we did a casino in Angola. You know, just madness, really.

Paul Spain:
Wow. Wow. So tell us a little bit about the scale and the scope of the business now. And Autex as an entity, you know, incorporates, you know, the acoustic products that we’ve talked about. You’ve also still got some insulation products and there’s a little sports team in there as well. Tell us how that all fits together.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, there is, absolutely. So, you know, New Zealand’s always been head office and. And always been sort of the hero part of the business, I guess. And more recently, our export markets have grown. So Australia, we’ve been in Australia a long time, but in the last five years or so, just seen some exponential growth. And the team in Australia doing such an incredible job and becoming sort of the bigger part of the Autex business. And that’s all on the acoustic side of what we do. And about 10, 11 years ago, we went into the UK, which was sort of a full circle back for the owners.

Rob Woolner:
We’re manufacturing out of Huddersfield and north of England, so almost taking the business home, I think, was the feeling at the time. And we got a showroom in London and sales team based out of there and, you know, we’re pushing out into Europe now, which is great. And then eight years ago or so, we moved into the us, so it’s been a fairly slow Burn there. It’s a big market, it’s something that we taken us a while to get our head around and I think as most New Zealand companies are probably a little bit nervous around the scale and the opportunity there. But we’ve just signed a soon to be released but I could probably talk about it here a little bit. Just a really big deal in the States with a large distributing partner over there. So the US for us is a really important market strategically moving forward and the warriors has been a super cool journey just to witness and be a part of. So Mark Robinson and his father David.

Rob Woolner:
David was a life member of New Zealand rugby league and I’m pretty sure Tex was one of the first sort of commercial sponsors of a New Zealand team. So they sponsored the Kiwi rugby league team back in, back in the early 80s or late 70s I think it was. And that was purely off the back of David seeing them training and they were all wearing different countries and different teams jerseys, you know and he said, you know, we’re a New Zealand team, we need to be wearing our own uniform, you know, so Ortec sponsored the uniform and there’s some cool photos of you know, back then than wearing New Zealand jerseys with Ortecs on the back. So there’s always been this affiliation with rugby league and we’ve sponsored the Kiwis for ages. We’ve sponsored the warriors for a long time, Point Shev and some other rugby clubs and really put some effort into growing rugby league in New Zealand. And the opportunity came up, must be four years ago, five years ago now, the opportunity to have a look at the warriors as that opportunity came up and first of all sort of took a, it was a joint venture acquisition there and then Autex ended up buying the whole thing. So yeah, it’s been a very different business to Autex in manufacturing, yet so complimentary in terms of I think just culture and you know, we help out on a few things and they help out and lean on us for a few things. So I think that side of it’s been great.

Rob Woolner:
We’ve got a lot of die hard rugby league fans within Ortecs. And that’s sort of one of the things in the interview process, you know, which team do you support? And if the warriors isn’t your number one team, it has to be your number two team. And so look, I think for Mark it’s been great. I think he’s sort of rolled over a little bit of the culture out of Vortex into the warriors, which is cool. And he’s been involved for the right reasons, which again is sort of believing in people and wanting to grow a great club and some great teams. And I think he’s only sort of just begun on the vision that he’s got there. So he will tell you black and blue that we’re going to win a premiership. So I have to believe him.

Rob Woolner:
I think he’s achieved almost everything else that he set out to do. So hopefully at some point I’m coming back on to talk about that. But look, there’s some great people on the warrior side. Cam George does a great job. So it’s been a really interesting journey. Just sort of something to sort of watch grow alongside what we’re doing.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, that’s fantastic. And you know the overall sort of scale of the business in terms of people and turnover now, what level are you hitting there?

Rob Woolner:
So we’re 175 odd here in New Zealand, which is great across two manufacturing sites out of Avondale. And all our competition really comes out of China, so we’re sort of the only, the only other manufacturer. I mean, there’s a few out of Europe actually, but you know, we’re, we hold on to the fact that we’re manufacturing here in New Zealand, which is great. So 175 odd here in New Zealand across two sites. And then Australia, we’re head officed out of Melbourne and we’ve got similar numbers over there around 160, 170. I lose count in the UK and the US because we’re just growing so quickly, but I think 40 odd in the UK and maybe 30 odd in the US and then if you couple that with the Warriors, I think all up we’re around 650 odd people within the Autex warriors group, which is, which is crazy when you stop and think about it. And revenue wise, we, we just ticked over 200 million last year, which was a big milestone.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, that’s huge.

Rob Woolner:
Big milestone for us. And, and we had some previous leadership that, that sort of said we don’t want to get too big. You know, we’d be a different company if we’re at 150 or 100 or. And so the feeling was we sort of weren’t chasing it too much, but, you know, we ticked over 200, like I say, and it feels like nothing’s really changed, to be honest. I feel we’re still the same business, we’re still a family business, we’re getting a little bit more corporate, I guess, in the way we go to market and do things. But I’m sort of really proud of and love being part of a business that’s got that family ownership and those values that go with that.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. What sort of stood out, what stood out to you over your journey with the business in terms of those family values and the company culture that that has drawn you in because this is now where you’ve spent the large majority of your career, right?

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, absolutely. And look, I’ve tried to leave a couple of times, but look, Mark, I think he’s involved in the business and he really cares about the people and I think gives opportunity to people. Like I said with me, that just didn’t have. Certainly I didn’t have the experience for some of these roles that he said, hey, I think you’d be good at this. How about you give it a go? Yeah, We’ve had some great people come through the business that you’ve almost continually out of your depth, you know, which feels quite stressful at the time. But I think the growth that comes with that is massive. So, yeah, look, there’s a family vibe to what we do. I think Mark sometimes comes across as he might not take things all that seriously, but he does, you know, he’s actually a really deep thinker and I think that’s a real strength of his.

Rob Woolner:
He’s keen to take a risk. He sort of sees opportunity a few years ahead of other people. He’s bought a couple of machines that have sat there for a year or two while we figure out what to do with it or how to use it. And that’s always sort of pushed us forward, I think. And there’s been some moments in Autex’s history where they’ve pivoted quite quickly and some of those decisions have been quite big decisions. But thankfully they’ve paid off and we’re in a great position now. It feels there’s really good energy across the group. Everyone’s working together really well and we’ve just got some great people and we tend to hang on to people for quite a while too, you know, which is great.

Rob Woolner:
We’ve got. We’re just going to celebrate 50 years service this year for one of our employees and we’ve got an honours board in the kitchen at work with a bunch of people with 30 years, 20 years, 15 years. It’s multi generation, you know, I think that’s almost the secret to what the Robinsons have done. You know, it’s just that legacy of people and opportunity which has certainly benefited the business over time.

Paul Spain:
Yep. Now you made a little comment around, tried to leave a couple of times.

Rob Woolner:
Oh, look, not seriously, but I think at one point early on, an opportunity came up and I sort of said to Mark, hey, I’ve been offered this opportunity. Looks quite interesting, I might take it. And he sort of said, Give me 24 hours. And then, you know, came back and said, well, look, this is where I think I want you to go. And, yeah, thankfully hung around. And it’s been seriously been an epic journey. Like some of the places I’ve managed to go and some of the conversations and opportunities we’ve chased have just been really exciting and rewarding, I think, looking back.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. So just walk us through, I guess, the different sort of phases of your journey in the business. And since joining, you started in a business development role?

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, started as an account manager, calling on architects, which I really enjoyed, and still deal with some of the architects 15 years later. You know, there’s some great relationships, I think that’s so good with sales too. Right. You end up truly making friends with some of your customers that go beyond just doing business. So I did that couple of years and Mark sort of said to me, hey, I think we’ve got this export role coming up. I think you’d be good at that. Are you keen to give it a go? And I sort of said, yeah, why not? And then I said to him, well, how does it work? Do I. Do you plan my trips for me? Like, where do I go? You know, what do I do? We had distributors in Asia and a few places.

Rob Woolner:
And he sort of said, nah, it’s up to you, you know, plan your trip and go for it. So I ended up on my first trip ever. I think I went right around Southeast Asia, Japan, China, Thailand, you know, and I had a suitcase at the time, you know, and just first up into Japan, had no idea what I was doing. Like, absolutely no idea. But just you turn up, you know, you meet with customers, you find out a little bit about what they’re doing and go from there. And, yeah, we certainly had some opportunities that didn’t pay off. We’ve set up an office in Southeast Asia and we’ve since shut that down and there’s still a lot of learning along the way and I really enjoyed that part of it. And it just.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, I think that was quite pivotal in my journey at Autex. And then from there moved into a bit more of a group sales and marketing role as the UK came on board and the US sort of sitting as a New Zealand conduit to those businesses because we Export a lot of product up to them. And I think it was around Covid time there was an opportunity potentially to step up into the MD role for New Zealand, the managing director role. And Covid was quite pivotal in that. I sort of said, right, if that’s going to be the case, then I’m really going to try and own the communication across that Covid space, which was just so challenging for a business like us. We’ve got global markets, some of the products we make are essential, but there’s a whole lot of gray area around or does that mean we can manufacture or not? And it was sort of. You had to make a decision yourself and then sort of deal with the consequences afterwards. So there was a lot of moving parts throughout that time and I think we did, I think we did a pretty good job of it, you know, in terms of trying to look after our people, try and keep the communication really strong so that people knew what was happening and when and take some of that uncertainty away.

Rob Woolner:
But that was a big moment, you know, how do we get through that and out the other side? And. And then worked really closely with NZT in and around some really good growth grants that we went for, the igfs, we’ve been through a couple of those, which have been quite big phases in being able to get into those markets. And then, so, yeah, moved into the managing director role for New Zealand. So I sort of came back into the New Zealand business a bit more, realised I had to learn a bit more about insulation because I hadn’t really done too much of that up until that point. So really sort of immersed myself in that side of the business, which was really interesting and I’ve sort of become the pretty passionate around our green stuff insulation brand. And then, yeah, just being part of the senior group and on the board, which has been great and been alongside Mark and some of the other directors as we’ve made some of these big decisions and just been able to see some of the success in market. We’ve got some great. We’ve got a managing director in each of those key markets and really good people that are doing some great things and, you know, it really feels like we’re part of a team and trying to push the whole business forward.

Rob Woolner:
So quite a long winded answer to your question. But look, it’s been varied. It’s been. I feel like I’ve had three or four different jobs within my time at Autex and each one’s added something and, you know, at some point it’ll be time for someone else to have a go and more than happy to step aside at some point and watch the next person step up. We’ve got great people that are ready to go.

Paul Spain:
So what sort of study and so on and help did you need to, you know, get during, during your Autex journey?

Rob Woolner:
Luckily enough, our CEO at the time said, look, I think you should do maybe an mba, have a look at an mba. And that was as I was potentially coming into the managing director role, so again, another opportunity. And I just sort of said, why not? You know, this didn’t quite know what I was signing up for. And I sort of said to myself, look, if they’re putting me through this, I’m going to make sure I make the most of it. You know, I’m going to really get after it. So it was literally, you know, my family, work and study, that was it. You know, really, you got to turn off everything else that’s going on in your life for a couple of years. And look, it’s only a couple of years out of that whole journey.

Rob Woolner:
But I found it so valuable, sort of getting under the hood of a few New Zealand businesses, really looking at some business theory and trying to apply it then back into ortecs at the time. So I just immersed myself in that and it was, it was just good. I think, from a confidence perspective, you know, as I was stepping up into that role, I think everyone has that imposter syndrome, thinking I’m not qualified for this, what am I doing in this role? But I think for me it gave a little bit of confidence there and it builds that network a bit too. Out the other side, you’ve met a whole bunch of good people that are on a similar journey. So, yeah, that was a big one for me.

Paul Spain:
Now, you’ve talked about looking after your people. When you’ve got across the business across New Zealand and internationally, what was it, 600 odd people? How you look after your people is going to make a real difference. Right, so what are the things that, I guess, you know, you’ve really appreciated around how Autex has operated and, you know, is that something you’ve made some changes to or, you know, how does it look for you today?

Rob Woolner:
Culture’s really important for me, I think. And look, everyone’s got their own style and I think you can’t get it right all the time. But I think trying to lead with the people first perspective has been really good. As I say, we’ve got some great people and you’ve got to let people go on their own journey and sort of learn themselves through their own mistakes and success. So I think ego is huge. I’m not massive around ego. So I think ego is a big thing if you can step out the way a little bit. And it’s so tempting to get back into the weeds and get involved.

Rob Woolner:
And that’s been a real shift, I think for me lately is just being able to do that, you know, step away and then you’ve got to, you’ve got to think more long term and sort of have bigger discussions that sort of take longer and you’re not, you don’t feel like you’re achieving so much because it’s not that day to day ticking off tasks, you know. Yeah, so that’s been a fundamental change. But where I’m going to with it, I think is just sort of stepping back a little bit and trying to support people to succeed. I think that’s really where I focus. You know, there’s so many ups and downs within a business. People have got all sorts going on outside in their lives that they bring into work. And we’re lucky enough to have a great wellness program and really try and look after people across various fitness and healthy eating and all these things. So that’s an important part of it.

Rob Woolner:
But trying to capture what Autex does, I think, and we reset values and we really try and lead with those. We celebrate success that align with our values. We, you know, we truly try and value long service. And I think Mark, when he’s back in the business, he’s great at that. You know, he’ll walk around the factory floor, you know, shaking hands with everyone and you know, the door’s always open and with me anyway, there’s not a conversation I’m not prepared to have, you know, so even when we go through some pretty tough times, I find that if you can just get people in a room and sort of talk them through why certain decisions have been made or what you’re trying to do long term, I think that’s, that’s worked really well. But as I say, I don’t get it right all the time and it is something I’m pretty passionate about and try and do really well. So I think hopefully, hopefully I’m on the slightly better side than not. But I think culture’s come too from just our history.

Rob Woolner:
You know, we’ve got a lot of people that I worked within the business a long time and a lot of legacy stories get spoken about and remembered and there’s just, there is some. Everyone’s really proud of what Auteux has achieved and their part, they’ve played in that. So it’s really recognizing that, I think. And again, aligned with the warriors and the success they have. You know, just like the supporters and the fans of the warriors, you know, it’s a certain type of person. Right. And it’s hard to describe, you know, how they do it so well, but there’s something there. And I think there’s something there at ortecs, which again, is something that I’m really proud of and hopefully is a legacy that sort of stays for a long time.

Paul Spain:
And what are some of the sort of practical things that have become part of how you operate? Whether that’s sort of fitness and wellbeing or other areas that you see that have been helpful?

Rob Woolner:
I think the wellness program’s been great. It’s something we’re lucky enough to be able to do and the owners of the business are really keen to offer that. So, yeah, the fact that, that we’ve had a lot of staff engage with that and get some really good results has been great. But even just we’ve got a commercial kitchen that supplements, so we fund a certain part of the meals for staff, but it brings everyone into that same space to have lunch every day, which just that in itself from a culture perspective is great. And then there’s a group that, you know, will have lunch and then go for a walk together or sit outside together. And, you know, it’s really trying to cross the bridge of those different departments and the fitness side of things. We just had a, a hyrox challenge where, you know, there was eight weeks training that everyone did and we had it involved, we had our production staff involved, health and safety, you know, all these people that probably wouldn’t see each other on a day to day basis that are all training and working out together outside of work. And then it sort of culminated in this event at the end where everyone was.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, it was just, it was a great day out and I got involved, which was awesome. You know, it was just great to be a part of some really cool people. No matter what your role is at the business or, or hierarchy. For me anyway, it doesn’t really exist.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, yeah. Now, one thing I found fascinating over the last, you know, I guess last few years is seeing the variety of manufacturing that happens in New Zealand and, you know, just actually, you know, wandering through and, you know, you were good enough to, you know, take me on a walk through your manufacturing facilities in Auckland, which. Pretty impressive. There’s a lot going on there. But, you know, what do you think it takes to succeed today in manufacturing? Especially when we consider just how much is coming out of China from a manufacturing standpoint, the cost challenges with that product, that’s often getting made very, very cheaply and with very low cost labour compared to New Zealand. Because as a business, AUTEC seems to be thriving and growing. You’ve got that challenge going on in the background, right, that I guess doesn’t ever completely go out of your mind.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, look, I think there’s some confidence. I don’t know if it’s a New Zealand thing or not. I think we’re relatively good people to hang out with and do business with New Zealanders. And I think that certainly in the US and other places it really sort of stands us in good stead. You know, we can have a conversation, we can have a few beers, we can have a laugh. We don’t take ourselves too seriously. You know, we’re there to do business and we’ve got lofty goals and we know what we want to do, but I guess we probably get there. You know, sometimes some of the people we’re dealing with probably don’t know how we ended up getting to where we get to.

Rob Woolner:
You know, it’s sort of, I think that’s been great and it’s certainly something that we pride ourselves on. I think just that innovation and I know it’s used a lot in New Zealand, but you know, some of the people that we’ve got is just our strength. It’d be very hard to replace them. It’s very hard for others probably to get people like some of the people we’ve got. And you know, some of the machines and technology that they’ve come up with is just amazing. And so for us, that innovation piece has been one that’s really separated us out. And yeah, it’s quite humbling when you go to some of these trade shows and there’s a Chinese manufacturer there that sort of says, oh, Autex, we know you, we look at you all the time. What they’re saying is, we’re copying your products as closely as we can.

Rob Woolner:
And look, you see it. And sometimes, although it does upset you a bit, but imitation is the form of flattery. So I think that innovation piece is key, but also just a little bit of confidence in and around some of these markets are big markets and we just sort of go, well, let’s give it a crack, you know, let’s just turn up and give it a go. And you connect with other kiwis around the world and there’s just something magic that goes with that. I think it’s hard to put words around, but I think we just ignore the fact that we’re a small island at the bottom of the world and we just sort of say, look, why not? Why can’t we be up in these markets doing what we’re doing and why can’t we set up manufacturing there and let’s give it a go? So, yeah, hard to answer that, but I think really it’s been, yeah, product development, good people and just that confidence to go out and have a go.

Paul Spain:
Now you talk about Australia, similar number of people in Australia as you’ve got in New Zealand. A lot of Kiwi businesses struggle to have success outside of New Zealand at all. And often Australia’s that sort of focus because, well, you know, reasonably similar to New Zealand and right next door. Why do you think that that’s going, you know, well for Autex and we.

Rob Woolner:
Fell in that trap too. You know, I thought Australia must be the same as New Zealand and it’s really not. There’s some real differences in those markets that we just don’t have here. So I think again, it’s balance of people. We’ve got some great Kiwis working in the Aussie business, but that’s not necessarily the reason why that’s successful. We’ve got some awesome Aussie people there too, you know, so it’s taken a little while for them to get going, but in the last five years it’s been incredible. And they’ve set. They’re always the ones to set ambitious targets that we sort of look at from New Zealand and say, really? But they go out and get it, you know, they go after it.

Rob Woolner:
So they’re really sort of starting to lead our business forward out of Australia and the size of the market’s great. And I guess just location wise, it’s easy enough to get product across on a short lead time. And so they’re very much an Australian business. I think that’s certainly a differentiator. And even with the us we went in there thinking everyone’s going to want to know that it’s New Zealand made. And we went in off the back of that New Zealand made story and some of the Americans just said, I don’t know where New Zealand is. That all sounds a bit scary. I’m not sure I want to do business with you.

Rob Woolner:
So we had to pivot pretty quickly and now more than ever with tariffs and all of that going on, made in Market, it’s just so powerful and we’ve got light manufacture in all those markets and we’re looking to increase that and put more manufacturing in over the coming years. So it’s worked out well for us, I guess, just being able to react to what’s going on in the market and be able to adjust the business slightly to make the most of it. But yeah, Australia for us is just phenomenal. How fast that’s growing and the potential scale that’s coming from there. And our MD there, he’s been with the business a long time, but he’s been the absolute champion to say that we can do it and we’re going to do it and let’s go, you know, and the business just get on so well. Now, again, we’ve had some personnel change over the last little while, which has just allowed the businesses to really work together to sort of impact Autex globally rather than each individual branch used to be a little bit isolated and competing against each other and all of that’s not helpful.

Paul Spain:
And walk us through what you’ve learned around the US as a market. You know, we see a lot of variation in terms of challenges in different types of export sectors. But what would you say have been the big takeaways for you?

Rob Woolner:
I think the scale of it, and we’ve only just realised that, and that’s sort of pushed us towards this large distribution partner that we’ve just signed with, you know, because scale there is everything we’ve got. We had about eight sales reps covering the whole of the us, you know, and you saw the new distribution partnership we’ve got, we’ll increase that to about 140, which is the scale you need to be. And so for us to scale up and get 140 sales reps on the ground, you know, from a operational cost through to just finding people and managing people, it’s just so difficult. So, look, we’ve tracked along fairly well and we’ve always been profitable there. And that’s been. That’s been interesting, but it just means it takes time. And some of our competitors, we were sort of the first pet acoustic product in the us, you know, and it was just great timing and that architects really wanted to try something different. They were sick of fiberglass panels and all of that.

Rob Woolner:
So it was like something new, colorful. And we were just. The demand was. Was fantastic, but we just couldn’t get out and get across the whole us. You just couldn’t talk to everyone or you couldn’t get in the door, you know, it was, it was very market specific. Right.

Paul Spain:
So you led the way, you know, product wise, but then you didn’t have the capability to really fully serve the market.

Rob Woolner:
Yeah, I mean, I guess how do you get out and tell 320 million people about your product? You know, it just takes time. So we had, you know, some competitors saw what we were doing, started up, then they got backed by private equity, you know, set up some light manufacturer, scaled quickly, sold, you know, and just there’s been two or three companies that have done that, you know, whilst we’ve been tracking along at our own, at our own pace, you know, and for us, that’s not really our model. We’ve always, Autex has always sort of controlled our own destiny and we, you know, we feel like we’re the best at selling our products, so we need to sell them. So it’s been a real change for us to go down this new path, but we’re incredibly excited about it. I feel it’s going to give us some epic scale and is really going to drive some good volume out of that market in a controlled way, you know, in a really well aligned partnership that’s going to benefit, I think, us and them. So that’s been probably eight or nine months work ticking along and we’re almost ready to push the button on that. So that’s incredibly exciting and I think you just got to treat it like it’s a different market to anything you’ve experienced before. That’s where I’ve come to at the end of it.

Rob Woolner:
I didn’t know that at the start, but at the end of it, looking back, it’s been a hell of a journey. I’ve loved every minute of it. But you know this, you can go to a new trade show every week if you want to, over there in a different place. So how do you stand out? How do you make an impact? But then the, the scale of over there is you don’t really need to make a big impact to actually get a relatively high volume of sales, you know, so it’s taken us a while, but I feel like we’re on the edge of something pretty exciting.

Paul Spain:
Fantastic. Anything else that you want to, want to add that we haven’t sort of, you know, touched on as far as the, the vortex journey?

Rob Woolner:
Not really. I think just the sustainability side. I think our design director is just, he’s become a bit of leader, a leader in that space and just really trying to, like I said before, close the loop on plastics and that pet side of things, which I think we’ve done incredibly well. He’s develop some machines that repellentise our waste and injection mould it back into parts that we then use. And the journey there is just fantastic. Taking back product, repurposing it into new products. So there’s a great story to be told there. Not on this podcast, but I think it’s an important part of our journey and where we’re at now.

Rob Woolner:
We’re sort of starting to lead a bit in that space, I think. And then on natural fibres, there’s obviously a lot of commentary around strong wool at the moment and government policy around using strong woollen buildings. And we were probably four years into a wool project. You know, we realized that, hey, there’s a whole lot of great natural fibres out there. Let’s start exploring it and looking into it. And there’s been some real pioneering work around lca, the way that we measure the product that we’ve just released, an embrace wool product, and it was the first building product with a carbon negative story. Carbon negative footprint. You mentioned lca, the life cycle assessment of a product.

Rob Woolner:
So essentially, essentially looks at all the contributing factors to a product’s lifetime from the start of the product to the end of the product. You know, sort of assesses all the carbon used and sequestered and all those things. And that, again, some risk around that. Going out to market with that, it was quite a risk, you know, it was quite a big thing and we put a lot of work into it and third party verified and all of that. But for us, again, it was just stepping outside of that comfort zone space a little bit and really trying to do it right. So, you know, the supply chain goes all the way back to individual farms and the way they farm then impacts the end product. And wool and pet, they’re often. Or synthetics, they’re often talked about in terms of one versus the other.

Rob Woolner:
But again, there’s great products that exist in both of those spaces and we’re fairly early on in that wool journey and there’s been some real challenges to do it properly. There’s often shortcuts to get to where you want to go, but we’re certainly trying to do things methodically and do things right. So that’s an important next chapter, I think, for Autex and where we’re going. It’s again, diversifying out into some really interesting products within that natural fibers space and really trying to unravel the sustainability approach. You know, there’s a lot going on there and there’s a lot of decisions you need to make in terms of how you approach it. And I think what we’ve done, not me personally but you know, within our, with, with our design director and our design team, they’re doing an incredible job. So yeah, that was, that was all I thought I’d throw in there, just, just to pay some respect to those guys that have done a huge amount.

Paul Spain:
Of work and yeah, so if you had to pick sort of, you know, one, one project that, you know, that, that really stands out, that you’re really, you know, proud of, that you’ve been involved in as a business, what, what would that be?

Rob Woolner:
Look, there are so many. But I think here in New Zealand as a good example would be Media Works, which was a recent fit at. I say recent, a few years old now, but Warren and Marnie were the architects and there’s a really high lofted reception area there as you walk in. And they wanted three really standout feature walls that for one, you know, being a recording studio and within media, I think they wanted to perform incredibly well in terms of acoustically, but they really wanted to capture sound. So one wall, you wouldn’t know it unless I said, but it’s sort of. The theme is sort of speakers and it’s sort of got this 3D form and folded product that sort of makes it look like a series of uniform shapes but very impactful and sort of take the form of speakers. And then on the back wall is sort of, my interpretation anyway is sort of frequency. It’s got these folded shapes coming out of the wall and in a very quite far, you know, probably 40 odd centimeters off the wall in quite a jagged shape, which again is so impactful when you walk in, it’s the first thing you see.

Rob Woolner:
And then on the left hand wall, we’ve ended up calling it the Wookiee wall. I’m not too sure why, but a whole series of overlaid different cuttings of material. So it’s taking, you know, none of those were products. They were sort of again, an idea that Warren and Mani said, hey, well what about this? And it sort of translates over a series of time into these shapes and feature sculptures. So we’ve got product, you know, throughout their studios from really high performance acoustic stuff, which is quite boring to look at, but performs incredibly well through to some of these really standout features. So for us that was a long time in the design and it was quite a large fit out that took place. So it was quite a journey. You know, the sale, the account managers that were involved working so closely with the architect and the installers.

Rob Woolner:
BJ’s were the installers. You know, they did an incredible job trying to take from a piece of paper and some plans to then try and, you know, build this visual art piece within that space. So for me, that’s one of the standouts, definitely.

Paul Spain:
I mean, I remember seeing, seeing the photos of it when they opened the new HQ and it was, yeah, just stunning. So, yeah, got in touch with a friend. It’s like, oh, it’s time for catch up. So I was keen to come in and, and have a look and yeah, really, really impressive. So, yeah, it’s great to have those sort of examples that really stand out.

Rob Woolner:
And we love New Zealand projects too, right? Made in New Zealand, product made on the doorstep. Involved in these projects locally is great. And it’s a lot of people that walk into those spaces that work for Autex are like, oh, there’s our product on the wall. You know, a lot of them, the first thing they do is look up at the ceiling and touching the walls. And it’s a bit of a joke with an Autex how we sort of behave when we walk into restaurants and buildings now because we’re just so keen on figuring out what products have been used.

Paul Spain:
Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s been fantastic to, you know, to hear your story, Rob, and certainly some of the AUTEC story. You had a chance to give a little bit of advice to listeners, sort of, you know, something big that you’ve learned along your journey that really, you know, sticks with you, that you could share with listeners.

Rob Woolner:
I think it’s really just making the most of every opportunity. You know, you get a lot of decisions, oh, should I take this new role or promotion or I think just don’t sit still. Always look for that next chance to prove yourself and back yourself. There’s a lot of people talking around, you know, I don’t have the experience for that or I’m not ready for that. But I think you learn so quickly through just jumping in and doing it. So I think, yeah, having some sort of discipline to the way you go about it. And for me it’s always been thinking two steps ahead. I really want it one day.

Rob Woolner:
I want to be in this type of position or in this situation and you’ve really got to start breaking that down and little chunks and steps along the way. So I get everyone’s not like that, but for me that’s been really important. I’ve got a really clear idea, I guess, on where I want to go and staying true to the values that you’ve got. And even if you’re in a business that might not have the exact values you’ve got, there’s some common ground there, I’m sure. So as long as I think there’s some values that align with what you want to do and want to achieve and just keep pursuing that relentlessly, I think that’s my advice. But I know everyone’s different and has a different approach, but yeah, I think taking every opportunity has been a big part of what I’ve always been up for and it’s been a really cool journey as a result.

Paul Spain:
Fantastic. Well, it’s been great to chat with you today. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Rob Woolner:
I appreciate it. Thanks very much for your time. All right.

Paul Spain:
Cheers, Rob. Well, it was great to sit down with Rob Warner and I hope you enjoyed hearing from him as much as I do. The New Zealand Business podcast is proudly brought to you by One New Zealand and Gorilla Technology. Feel free to get in touch with me, Paul Spain. If you’d like to hear more about how Gorilla Technology can help your business, be sure to listen in to our other episodes featuring many of New Zealand’s most successful leaders, including founders such as Rob Drury of Zero Cecilia and James Robinson of My Foodbag, Sir Peter Beck of Rocket Lab, Brooke Roberts of Sharesies, Sir Michael Hill, Sir Graham Henry, amongst many others. And because a rising tide lifts all boats, you can contribute to lifting New Zealand’s success by sharing a favourite episode with a friend or colleague. Thanks for listening in. This is Paul Spain signing out.

Paul Spain:
Look forward to catching you again on the next episode.